Elderly couple admit £140,000 benefit fraud

Basildon Recorder: Elderly couple admit £140,000 benefit fraud Elderly couple admit £140,000 benefit fraud

TWO pensioners have escaped a jail term after swindling more than £140,000 in benefits.

Raymond Wood, 79, and wife Georgina, 75, carried out a string of offences including dishonestly making false statements in order to obtain benefits, failing to notify changes of circumstances, retaining wrongful credits and fraud.

Basildon Crown Court heard the couple failed to tell the Department for Work and Pensions they were living together.

Mrs Wood did not declare she owned two homes- one in Little Lullaway, Laindon and one in Brentwood- and illegally claimed income support, pension credit, and council tax benefit from three separate local authorities- Basildon Council, Brentwood Council and South Kesteven Council.

Her crimes took place over a 15 year period.

She also failed to reveal she had more than £16,000 of savings in the bank.

Her husband falsely claimed income support, pension credit, and council tax benefit between July 2003 and February 2013.

The couple, of Langford Gardens, in Grantham, Lincolnshire, originally denied the 23 offences.

They changed their plea to guilty at the last minute, as their trial was due to start at Basildon Crown Court.

They were handed a twelve month custodial sentence, suspended for two years, with the judge taking into account their age, good character and poor health.

The pair have also been ordered to start paying back the £140,000 they illegally claimed.

Rob Manser, billing and benefits manager at Basildon Council, said: “In most cases, benefits are paid to those in genuine need of support but on this occasion it was not the case and the couple had undeclared capital and property and were not entitled to dip into the public purse.

“I would also like to highlight the fact that this was a particularly complex case which involved enquiries at a number of different addresses and covered many years. This case has demonstrated that effective joint working takes place between different Council’s across the country, as this will often involve other agencies.

“This Authority is committed to its duty to protect taxpayer’s money. In these times of financial austerity, when many local people are feeling the strain, it makes it doubly important that we do our utmost to ensure that public money only goes to those who are entitled.

“Benefit fraud is against the law and cheats will be forced to face the consequences. As well as paying their debt to society they will have to repay every penny they stole, back to the tax payers.”

Comments (47)

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3:48pm Thu 1 May 14

Sensible Man says...

Why on earth should their age or health have any bearing on the severity of the sentencing? They were fit and well enough to commit the crimes they have admitted to. And I wonder just how quickly they are going to repay the £140k? If they own properties - as stated in the article - presumably one or more can be quickly sold to repay the money they swindled / stole?
Why on earth should their age or health have any bearing on the severity of the sentencing? They were fit and well enough to commit the crimes they have admitted to. And I wonder just how quickly they are going to repay the £140k? If they own properties - as stated in the article - presumably one or more can be quickly sold to repay the money they swindled / stole? Sensible Man
  • Score: 62

3:51pm Thu 1 May 14

the25man says...

I have no sympathy for this couple. They must have been quite clever to have fooled the three Councils for so long. I wonder if the debt dies with them or it's taken from the Estate
I have no sympathy for this couple. They must have been quite clever to have fooled the three Councils for so long. I wonder if the debt dies with them or it's taken from the Estate the25man
  • Score: 53

3:59pm Thu 1 May 14

Idontknowy says...

"They were handed a twelve month custodial sentence, suspended for two years, with the judge taking into account their age, good character and poor health."

How did the judge decide they had good character when they have deliberately swindled tax-payers money from at least three local authorities. Her fraud being over a period of 15 years and his being over a period of 10 years.
"They were handed a twelve month custodial sentence, suspended for two years, with the judge taking into account their age, good character and poor health." How did the judge decide they had good character when they have deliberately swindled tax-payers money from at least three local authorities. Her fraud being over a period of 15 years and his being over a period of 10 years. Idontknowy
  • Score: 52

4:20pm Thu 1 May 14

Eric the Red says...

We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments.
We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments. Eric the Red
  • Score: 24

4:24pm Thu 1 May 14

profondo asbo says...

Eric the Red wrote:
We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments.
agreed. the benefit fraud stats are as understated as the crime stats.
[quote][p][bold]Eric the Red[/bold] wrote: We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments.[/p][/quote]agreed. the benefit fraud stats are as understated as the crime stats. profondo asbo
  • Score: 24

4:32pm Thu 1 May 14

Howard Cháse says...

Sieze the house in Little Lullaway and sell it off to recoup the dough.
Sieze the house in Little Lullaway and sell it off to recoup the dough. Howard Cháse
  • Score: 38

5:41pm Thu 1 May 14

carnmountyouknowitmakessense says...

Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter.
100 pound fine, NEXT
Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT carnmountyouknowitmakessense
  • Score: -41

5:51pm Thu 1 May 14

profondo asbo says...

carnmountyouknowitma
kessense
wrote:
Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter.
100 pound fine, NEXT
you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced.
[quote][p][bold]carnmountyouknowitma kessense[/bold] wrote: Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT[/p][/quote]you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced. profondo asbo
  • Score: 22

5:51pm Thu 1 May 14

Living the La Vida Legra says...

carnmountyouknowitma
kessense
wrote:
Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT
You @r$€
[quote][p][bold]carnmountyouknowitma kessense[/bold] wrote: Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT[/p][/quote]You @r$€ Living the La Vida Legra
  • Score: 19

5:58pm Thu 1 May 14

shallotman says...

Flog the houses she owns.
Flog the houses she owns. shallotman
  • Score: 30

5:59pm Thu 1 May 14

Living the La Vida Legra says...

Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown Living the La Vida Legra
  • Score: 7

6:09pm Thu 1 May 14

carnmountyouknowitmakessense says...

profondo asbo wrote:
carnmountyouknowitma

kessense
wrote:
Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter.
100 pound fine, NEXT
you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced.
Never too late to appeal, with free legal representation through legal charity for the elderly, now go and thwart some real crims...
[quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carnmountyouknowitma kessense[/bold] wrote: Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT[/p][/quote]you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced.[/p][/quote]Never too late to appeal, with free legal representation through legal charity for the elderly, now go and thwart some real crims... carnmountyouknowitmakessense
  • Score: -21

6:13pm Thu 1 May 14

profondo asbo says...

carnmountyouknowitma
kessense
wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
carnmountyouknowitma


kessense
wrote:
Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter.
100 pound fine, NEXT
you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced.
Never too late to appeal, with free legal representation through legal charity for the elderly, now go and thwart some real crims...
you could always put your hand in your pocket to fund their appeal...
[quote][p][bold]carnmountyouknowitma kessense[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carnmountyouknowitma kessense[/bold] wrote: Confusion reigns with old age, remember the amount of tax this couple have paid, during their working lives, and always the system is at fault, not the accused, in such a matter. 100 pound fine, NEXT[/p][/quote]you are obviously more than a little confused. judgement has already been passed. they were found guilty and sentenced.[/p][/quote]Never too late to appeal, with free legal representation through legal charity for the elderly, now go and thwart some real crims...[/p][/quote]you could always put your hand in your pocket to fund their appeal... profondo asbo
  • Score: 23

6:50pm Thu 1 May 14

runwellian says...

Idontknowy wrote:
"They were handed a twelve month custodial sentence, suspended for two years, with the judge taking into account their age, good character and poor health."

How did the judge decide they had good character when they have deliberately swindled tax-payers money from at least three local authorities. Her fraud being over a period of 15 years and his being over a period of 10 years.
Just goes to show crime does pay!
[quote][p][bold]Idontknowy[/bold] wrote: "They were handed a twelve month custodial sentence, suspended for two years, with the judge taking into account their age, good character and poor health." How did the judge decide they had good character when they have deliberately swindled tax-payers money from at least three local authorities. Her fraud being over a period of 15 years and his being over a period of 10 years.[/p][/quote]Just goes to show crime does pay! runwellian
  • Score: 10

6:56pm Thu 1 May 14

runwellian says...

What amazes me is how few checks are made when folk claim benefits.

Benefit departments can check bank accounts if someone wants tax payers money, they should accept that this is right as part of their claim.

With todays technology, they could do a screening across all councils in a matter of days, before thousands of tax payers money is wasted on them.

As for their age / health, prions do provide health care! Should we release Ian Brady due to his poor health, I bet this thieving couple have far better health than Brady ... not that I would want him released!
What amazes me is how few checks are made when folk claim benefits. Benefit departments can check bank accounts if someone wants tax payers money, they should accept that this is right as part of their claim. With todays technology, they could do a screening across all councils in a matter of days, before thousands of tax payers money is wasted on them. As for their age / health, prions do provide health care! Should we release Ian Brady due to his poor health, I bet this thieving couple have far better health than Brady ... not that I would want him released! runwellian
  • Score: 12

7:19pm Thu 1 May 14

Devils Advocate says...

Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
All benefits? What let people who can't fend for themselves just die? You pay tens of thousands in taxes? Well good for you. Perhaps you get paid of pay yourself far too much. Are you one of the 10% who have 95% of all income in this country? Or perhaps the 1% who have the best part of most of our capital. One thing is almost for sure, you did not work for it if you are!

Having said that, People with two or more houses on benefits? What does that say about the unfair bedroom tax on people who can't work?
[quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]All benefits? What let people who can't fend for themselves just die? You pay tens of thousands in taxes? Well good for you. Perhaps you get paid of pay yourself far too much. Are you one of the 10% who have 95% of all income in this country? Or perhaps the 1% who have the best part of most of our capital. One thing is almost for sure, you did not work for it if you are! Having said that, People with two or more houses on benefits? What does that say about the unfair bedroom tax on people who can't work? Devils Advocate
  • Score: 12

11:57pm Thu 1 May 14

ThisYear says...

Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
Does a penny of 'your' money go to pay on single benefit?

If so, shows us how it does.
[quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]Does a penny of 'your' money go to pay on single benefit? If so, shows us how it does. ThisYear
  • Score: -7

6:40am Fri 2 May 14

the citizen says...

Simply put charges on the properties preventing any capital being dispersed until the debt is paid off. Easily done. 10 minutes before a judge - seen it done. Money recouped. As I have mentioned previously the recouped benefit should be added to a fine of double the amount defrauded. We must make sure that crime does NOT pay. No need to cost us more by putting them in jail.
Simply put charges on the properties preventing any capital being dispersed until the debt is paid off. Easily done. 10 minutes before a judge - seen it done. Money recouped. As I have mentioned previously the recouped benefit should be added to a fine of double the amount defrauded. We must make sure that crime does NOT pay. No need to cost us more by putting them in jail. the citizen
  • Score: 10

7:53am Fri 2 May 14

angryofessex says...

ThisYear wrote:
Living the La Vida Legra wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
Does a penny of 'your' money go to pay on single benefit? If so, shows us how it does.
Give it a rest man, same old, same old “we are all tax payers” boll*ox, we all know benefits are funded from the money tree but I am afraid I’ve had no luck trying to cultivate one and have had to work and pay taxes all my life, maybe you can give us some gardening tips.
[quote][p][bold]ThisYear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]Does a penny of 'your' money go to pay on single benefit? If so, shows us how it does.[/p][/quote]Give it a rest man, same old, same old “we are all tax payers” boll*ox, we all know benefits are funded from the money tree but I am afraid I’ve had no luck trying to cultivate one and have had to work and pay taxes all my life, maybe you can give us some gardening tips. angryofessex
  • Score: 11

8:02am Fri 2 May 14

angryofessex says...

Eric the Red wrote:
We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments.
Benefit fraud investigations are labour intensive and very time consuming. The only reason most people are caught out is if someone informs on them, which is highly unlikely and is usually connected to some unrelated dispute. You have to blame the government to a degree, when people can claim by simply filling out a form or even over the telephone, cases like this are just the tip of the iceberg.
[quote][p][bold]Eric the Red[/bold] wrote: We seem to hear about these massive fraud cases on a daily basis - makes you wonder how many are not uncovered; how much of taxpayers' money is freely given away by some clerk with (obviously) minimum checks and failsafes, or liaisons between departments.[/p][/quote]Benefit fraud investigations are labour intensive and very time consuming. The only reason most people are caught out is if someone informs on them, which is highly unlikely and is usually connected to some unrelated dispute. You have to blame the government to a degree, when people can claim by simply filling out a form or even over the telephone, cases like this are just the tip of the iceberg. angryofessex
  • Score: 6

8:24am Fri 2 May 14

pembury53 says...

old age is nothing to look forward to..... they were trying to lighten the load, as others more fortunate, retire to the algarve, to see out their days..... the shame alone is punishment enough for these grand parents.....
old age is nothing to look forward to..... they were trying to lighten the load, as others more fortunate, retire to the algarve, to see out their days..... the shame alone is punishment enough for these grand parents..... pembury53
  • Score: -4

10:51am Fri 2 May 14

Discouraged says...

How about when someone claims benefit their national insurance number and passport details are recorded and a check is made to see if that person is claiming any other benefite anywhere from a UK register. I am amazed that the councils were not already doing this. No wonder our council tax is so high. Also, why no punishment? they just have to pay back what they stole, a 15 year interest free loan.
How about when someone claims benefit their national insurance number and passport details are recorded and a check is made to see if that person is claiming any other benefite anywhere from a UK register. I am amazed that the councils were not already doing this. No wonder our council tax is so high. Also, why no punishment? they just have to pay back what they stole, a 15 year interest free loan. Discouraged
  • Score: 3

11:45am Fri 2 May 14

GeneralGrb says...

Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy. GeneralGrb
  • Score: 2

12:17pm Fri 2 May 14

profondo asbo says...

GeneralGrb wrote:
Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.
[quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations. profondo asbo
  • Score: 6

2:02pm Fri 2 May 14

Nelly99 says...

Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however,
(deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that.
[quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however, (deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that. Nelly99
  • Score: 7

4:16pm Fri 2 May 14

GeneralGrb says...

profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.
Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.
[quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.[/p][/quote]Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work. GeneralGrb
  • Score: 3

4:32pm Fri 2 May 14

RogerChasewood says...

"good character" although they stole £140K? and then they just have to pay the money back, so basically it was just a free loan which they will never have to pay back. Crime pays
"good character" although they stole £140K? and then they just have to pay the money back, so basically it was just a free loan which they will never have to pay back. Crime pays RogerChasewood
  • Score: 7

4:43pm Fri 2 May 14

profondo asbo says...

GeneralGrb wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.
Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.
what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage?
[quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.[/p][/quote]Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.[/p][/quote]what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage? profondo asbo
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Fri 2 May 14

profondo asbo says...

and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party.
and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party. profondo asbo
  • Score: -1

5:23pm Fri 2 May 14

Devils Advocate says...

GeneralGrb wrote:
Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government.
It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom!
[quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government. It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom! Devils Advocate
  • Score: 1

12:38am Sat 3 May 14

Living the La Vida Legra says...

Devils Advocate wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote:
Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government.
It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom!
Your misguided
[quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government. It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom![/p][/quote]Your misguided Living the La Vida Legra
  • Score: 2

5:42am Sat 3 May 14

Adrenaline_Junkie says...

Good luck to them. I hope the money is never recovered and they have the last laugh.
Good luck to them. I hope the money is never recovered and they have the last laugh. Adrenaline_Junkie
  • Score: -9

7:12am Sat 3 May 14

poortaxpayer says...

Cease their assets under the proceeds of crime act.
Cease their assets under the proceeds of crime act. poortaxpayer
  • Score: 4

1:48pm Sat 3 May 14

Devils Advocate says...

Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote:
Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government.
It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom!
Your misguided
No, just not one of the greedy who want it all is all.
Your creed does not believe in "A fair day's work for a fair day's pay." you cannot argue with this, nor the fact that managers have had it worked out what is the minimum a person needs to exist and aim for that. They pay themselves the biggest pensions and attack the pensions of everyday hard-working people, their friend the newspapers publish "truth" that never meets the English standard of "The whole truth and nothing but the truth" and I am misguided?
No friend, it is the right that is misguiding the people. Always have and always will!
But you never say if you believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay for all, so you are being deceptive.
[quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]Totally agree, The Tories manage to wind up and release the worst of the have-nots, who only know how to criticise the weakest. Meanwhile, the wealthy continue along the two channels of mass avoidance of tax including VAT and even pay less for their basics than people on benefits! And of course, moving their unearned Capital out of the UK when "The wrong Government" is in power is one of the simplest of tricks to defame that Government. It is time the working population were viewed as part of this country instead of units of labour, under some middle-aged serfdom![/p][/quote]Your misguided[/p][/quote]No, just not one of the greedy who want it all is all. Your creed does not believe in "A fair day's work for a fair day's pay." you cannot argue with this, nor the fact that managers have had it worked out what is the minimum a person needs to exist and aim for that. They pay themselves the biggest pensions and attack the pensions of everyday hard-working people, their friend the newspapers publish "truth" that never meets the English standard of "The whole truth and nothing but the truth" and I am misguided? No friend, it is the right that is misguiding the people. Always have and always will! But you never say if you believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay for all, so you are being deceptive. Devils Advocate
  • Score: 4

4:36pm Sun 4 May 14

runwellian says...

Lesson of the day ... if you are considered to be 'elderly' and in poor health, you can commit fraud and get away with it!

i like that ... so where do we start?
Lesson of the day ... if you are considered to be 'elderly' and in poor health, you can commit fraud and get away with it! i like that ... so where do we start? runwellian
  • Score: -1

6:13pm Sun 4 May 14

Nelly99 says...

profondo asbo wrote:
and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party.
You kip if you want to... Did'ya see Nigel this morning? I think I love him.
[quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party.[/p][/quote]You kip if you want to... Did'ya see Nigel this morning? I think I love him. Nelly99
  • Score: 1

8:52pm Sun 4 May 14

profondo asbo says...

Nelly99 wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party.
You kip if you want to... Did'ya see Nigel this morning? I think I love him.
the only politician who gives it to you straight.
[quote][p][bold]Nelly99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: and that concludes the party political broadcast for the ukip party.[/p][/quote]You kip if you want to... Did'ya see Nigel this morning? I think I love him.[/p][/quote]the only politician who gives it to you straight. profondo asbo
  • Score: 5

10:47pm Sun 4 May 14

Bigmama1 says...

Adrenaline_Junkie wrote:
Good luck to them. I hope the money is never recovered and they have the last laugh.
So from your stupid quote we assume you too are a dishonest benefit scrounger? It's people like you making crass remarks which make the rest of us law abiding, tax paying individuals so angry.
[quote][p][bold]Adrenaline_Junkie[/bold] wrote: Good luck to them. I hope the money is never recovered and they have the last laugh.[/p][/quote]So from your stupid quote we assume you too are a dishonest benefit scrounger? It's people like you making crass remarks which make the rest of us law abiding, tax paying individuals so angry. Bigmama1
  • Score: 6

12:22am Mon 5 May 14

Living the La Vida Legra says...

Nelly99 wrote:
Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however,
(deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that.
How exciting I look forward to meeting you ;-))
But I bet I'll find out who you are first!
Such fun!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Nelly99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however, (deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that.[/p][/quote]How exciting I look forward to meeting you ;-)) But I bet I'll find out who you are first! Such fun!!!!!! Living the La Vida Legra
  • Score: 0

3:28am Mon 5 May 14

Kim Gandy says...

Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
Once again, you talk absolute cr@p.

Has it occurred to you that not everyone on benefits is out of work? Lots of people have to have their meagre wages topped up with benefits.

If greedy employers paid a decent working wage, people would have enough to cover their bills and some left over to enjoy themselves.

With the current obsession of many employers with paying just over the minimum wage to cheap foreign labour that means that many folk have to put up with low wages.

When the Government addresses that problem, we might stop this exploitation once and for all and see a proper day's work being rewarded with a proper day's pay, not an insult like £6.50 an hour.
[quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]Once again, you talk absolute cr@p. Has it occurred to you that not everyone on benefits is out of work? Lots of people have to have their meagre wages topped up with benefits. If greedy employers paid a decent working wage, people would have enough to cover their bills and some left over to enjoy themselves. With the current obsession of many employers with paying just over the minimum wage to cheap foreign labour that means that many folk have to put up with low wages. When the Government addresses that problem, we might stop this exploitation once and for all and see a proper day's work being rewarded with a proper day's pay, not an insult like £6.50 an hour. Kim Gandy
  • Score: 4

3:38am Mon 5 May 14

Kim Gandy says...

Nelly99 wrote:
Living the La Vida Legra wrote:
Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown
It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however,
(deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that.
Really? Let's see you survive on just above £6.50 an hour as a single parent holding down a damned hard and demanding job. Forget smoking and drinking, not all those on benefits smoke and drink your taxes. Oh and let's not forget, they still pay taxes themselves.

I have done this for years but now am self employed but still not on a fantastic amount. Holidays are a thing of the past and we don't all swan around in big cars or live in swish properties. Nor do we have boob jobs on the taxpayer.

Some of you people are so far up yourselves it's untrue.
[quote][p][bold]Nelly99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Living the La Vida Legra[/bold] wrote: Scrap all benefits. Enough is enough! I pay tens of thousands to the Goverment in taxes and this is how my money is blown[/p][/quote]It really pains me to agree with you as I think I know who you are... however, (deep breath) I totally agree. When the benefit system was devised it was implemented so that the occasional person or family fallen on hard times would be protected. Now it has gone way out of whack and will not be sustainable for any length of time at this rate of expansion. It is like some terrible pyramid scheme taking money from one sector to fund another. Eventually it will all collapse though perhaps not within what time is left for me.I occasionally ponder on whether if you stopped all these payments would we have millions of wandering homeless. I doubt it! Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to believe you supported yourself and didn't rely on state aid or anyone else. Strangely...I still believe that.[/p][/quote]Really? Let's see you survive on just above £6.50 an hour as a single parent holding down a damned hard and demanding job. Forget smoking and drinking, not all those on benefits smoke and drink your taxes. Oh and let's not forget, they still pay taxes themselves. I have done this for years but now am self employed but still not on a fantastic amount. Holidays are a thing of the past and we don't all swan around in big cars or live in swish properties. Nor do we have boob jobs on the taxpayer. Some of you people are so far up yourselves it's untrue. Kim Gandy
  • Score: 1

3:46am Mon 5 May 14

Kim Gandy says...

The usual plethora of stupid comments above from the usual suspects.

For what it's worth I agree with the comments that these people shouldn't be treated lightly as they have obviously been at it a long time.

However, I would remind people that the Basildon area is full of people taking advantage, including those who live on illegal developments and who do not abide by the law, in fact blatantly flout it.

There are people in this area who are NEVER brought to book and in fact, are allowed to carry on screwing the system at the rest of our expense.

I reserve my venom for such people and do not tar everybody on benefits with the same brush.

What about the couple who have worked all their lives and then one or both becomes unemployed either through ill health or redundancy; just throw them out on the street?

People end up on benefits for a number of reasons and most are genuine, not benefit scroungers. I don't see why such people should be penalised just because of a selfish minority.
The usual plethora of stupid comments above from the usual suspects. For what it's worth I agree with the comments that these people shouldn't be treated lightly as they have obviously been at it a long time. However, I would remind people that the Basildon area is full of people taking advantage, including those who live on illegal developments and who do not abide by the law, in fact blatantly flout it. There are people in this area who are NEVER brought to book and in fact, are allowed to carry on screwing the system at the rest of our expense. I reserve my venom for such people and do not tar everybody on benefits with the same brush. What about the couple who have worked all their lives and then one or both becomes unemployed either through ill health or redundancy; just throw them out on the street? People end up on benefits for a number of reasons and most are genuine, not benefit scroungers. I don't see why such people should be penalised just because of a selfish minority. Kim Gandy
  • Score: 3

4:02am Mon 5 May 14

Kim Gandy says...

profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.
Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.
what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage?
This comment is so typical of the kind of rubbish you spout.

You think for instance, that care work is unskilled. It takes love, courage and commitment to do a job like that. It involves getting dirty and sometimes being attacked.

But you have to be committed and work long hours for a pittance. Why should anyone do a job somebody like you wouldn't get out of bed to do, in order to be insulted with minimum wage.

As for Bulgarians and Romanians, they should be at the back of the queue. British jobs for British workers first and then if there are spaces to fill, they can be filled by outside staff.

Why should we be exploited just because people want to come here from abroad and enjoy a standard of living they have not previously worked for in a country they have never previously paid taxes into?

There are plenty of people already here who need jobs and they should be given first choice. I bet you are one of these who refers to British workers as lazy and tars them all with the same brush.

I find your view offensive and also traitorous. People like you are Enemies Within and self haters.

We can do without that attitude thankyou. It's time we talked the hard working people of this country up instead of constantly putting them down - but that's a trait of many of you on here isn't it? Always putting folk down even though you don't know them from Adam.

Benefits cheats should be dealt with properly by the law but let's not start calling all those on benefits.

If you've never had to partake of any, good for you. As for people not having morals, there you go again, some of us, despite all the cr@p we get on here to the contrary, do actually have some.

The trouble with this country is it doesn't look after its own first. It's too busy sorting everybody else's problems out.

And comments like yours aren't helping anybody. You say this "Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit." then you slag off people who are what YOU consider to be unskilled and manual.

Everybody who works is skilled in some way and most so called unskilled and manual workers work much harder than you do. Often they work bank holidays and Christmas while you lollop around on your butt.

So less of looking down your nose at folk and more coming out from hiding behind that daft pseudonym and telling us why we should all pay homage to you for being so superior.
[quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.[/p][/quote]Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.[/p][/quote]what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage?[/p][/quote]This comment is so typical of the kind of rubbish you spout. You think for instance, that care work is unskilled. It takes love, courage and commitment to do a job like that. It involves getting dirty and sometimes being attacked. But you have to be committed and work long hours for a pittance. Why should anyone do a job somebody like you wouldn't get out of bed to do, in order to be insulted with minimum wage. As for Bulgarians and Romanians, they should be at the back of the queue. British jobs for British workers first and then if there are spaces to fill, they can be filled by outside staff. Why should we be exploited just because people want to come here from abroad and enjoy a standard of living they have not previously worked for in a country they have never previously paid taxes into? There are plenty of people already here who need jobs and they should be given first choice. I bet you are one of these who refers to British workers as lazy and tars them all with the same brush. I find your view offensive and also traitorous. People like you are Enemies Within and self haters. We can do without that attitude thankyou. It's time we talked the hard working people of this country up instead of constantly putting them down - but that's a trait of many of you on here isn't it? Always putting folk down even though you don't know them from Adam. Benefits cheats should be dealt with properly by the law but let's not start calling all those on benefits. If you've never had to partake of any, good for you. As for people not having morals, there you go again, some of us, despite all the cr@p we get on here to the contrary, do actually have some. The trouble with this country is it doesn't look after its own first. It's too busy sorting everybody else's problems out. And comments like yours aren't helping anybody. You say this "Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit." then you slag off people who are what YOU consider to be unskilled and manual. Everybody who works is skilled in some way and most so called unskilled and manual workers work much harder than you do. Often they work bank holidays and Christmas while you lollop around on your butt. So less of looking down your nose at folk and more coming out from hiding behind that daft pseudonym and telling us why we should all pay homage to you for being so superior. Kim Gandy
  • Score: -1

10:50am Mon 5 May 14

profondo asbo says...

Kim Gandy wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote:
profondo asbo wrote:
GeneralGrb wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.
it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.
Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.
what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage?
This comment is so typical of the kind of rubbish you spout.

You think for instance, that care work is unskilled. It takes love, courage and commitment to do a job like that. It involves getting dirty and sometimes being attacked.

But you have to be committed and work long hours for a pittance. Why should anyone do a job somebody like you wouldn't get out of bed to do, in order to be insulted with minimum wage.

As for Bulgarians and Romanians, they should be at the back of the queue. British jobs for British workers first and then if there are spaces to fill, they can be filled by outside staff.

Why should we be exploited just because people want to come here from abroad and enjoy a standard of living they have not previously worked for in a country they have never previously paid taxes into?

There are plenty of people already here who need jobs and they should be given first choice. I bet you are one of these who refers to British workers as lazy and tars them all with the same brush.

I find your view offensive and also traitorous. People like you are Enemies Within and self haters.

We can do without that attitude thankyou. It's time we talked the hard working people of this country up instead of constantly putting them down - but that's a trait of many of you on here isn't it? Always putting folk down even though you don't know them from Adam.

Benefits cheats should be dealt with properly by the law but let's not start calling all those on benefits.

If you've never had to partake of any, good for you. As for people not having morals, there you go again, some of us, despite all the cr@p we get on here to the contrary, do actually have some.

The trouble with this country is it doesn't look after its own first. It's too busy sorting everybody else's problems out.

And comments like yours aren't helping anybody. You say this "Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit." then you slag off people who are what YOU consider to be unskilled and manual.

Everybody who works is skilled in some way and most so called unskilled and manual workers work much harder than you do. Often they work bank holidays and Christmas while you lollop around on your butt.

So less of looking down your nose at folk and more coming out from hiding behind that daft pseudonym and telling us why we should all pay homage to you for being so superior.
got the abridged version?

you really have zero clue. you like to put the boot into "the lefties" ad nauseum (yawn) and yet most of the policies you espouse are straight from the communist party handbook?
[quote][p][bold]Kim Gandy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GeneralGrb[/bold] wrote: Tax avoidance by large firms employing majority of staff on zero hour contracts who then have to claim benefots because of low pay leave the tax coffers around £35b a year short. Benefit fraud is a fraction of that, both are wrong yet tax avaoidance rarely sees a jail term only a commutation agreement to settle what they fancy.[/p][/quote]it's not avoidance it's called mitigation. arranging your affairs so you pay as little tax as possible. avoidance is illegal whereas mitigation is within the law. the "mitigation" number is unquantifiable but the corporations do at least pay national insurance for their employees and the employees pay tax and NI on the salaries paid by the corporations.[/p][/quote]Wrong. Avoidance is legal Evasion is illegal. Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit. A majority of benefit payments are paid to those in work.[/p][/quote]what planet are you living on expecting corporations to do the right thing? who has morals these days anyway? if you're unskilled, manual why should you be paid more than the minimum wage - there are X million romanian/bulgarians waiting to fill your shoes and they'd happily take less than minimum wage?[/p][/quote]This comment is so typical of the kind of rubbish you spout. You think for instance, that care work is unskilled. It takes love, courage and commitment to do a job like that. It involves getting dirty and sometimes being attacked. But you have to be committed and work long hours for a pittance. Why should anyone do a job somebody like you wouldn't get out of bed to do, in order to be insulted with minimum wage. As for Bulgarians and Romanians, they should be at the back of the queue. British jobs for British workers first and then if there are spaces to fill, they can be filled by outside staff. Why should we be exploited just because people want to come here from abroad and enjoy a standard of living they have not previously worked for in a country they have never previously paid taxes into? There are plenty of people already here who need jobs and they should be given first choice. I bet you are one of these who refers to British workers as lazy and tars them all with the same brush. I find your view offensive and also traitorous. People like you are Enemies Within and self haters. We can do without that attitude thankyou. It's time we talked the hard working people of this country up instead of constantly putting them down - but that's a trait of many of you on here isn't it? Always putting folk down even though you don't know them from Adam. Benefits cheats should be dealt with properly by the law but let's not start calling all those on benefits. If you've never had to partake of any, good for you. As for people not having morals, there you go again, some of us, despite all the cr@p we get on here to the contrary, do actually have some. The trouble with this country is it doesn't look after its own first. It's too busy sorting everybody else's problems out. And comments like yours aren't helping anybody. You say this "Doesn't make it morally right to avoid tax when you are employing staff on such low wages they are claiming benefit." then you slag off people who are what YOU consider to be unskilled and manual. Everybody who works is skilled in some way and most so called unskilled and manual workers work much harder than you do. Often they work bank holidays and Christmas while you lollop around on your butt. So less of looking down your nose at folk and more coming out from hiding behind that daft pseudonym and telling us why we should all pay homage to you for being so superior.[/p][/quote]got the abridged version? you really have zero clue. you like to put the boot into "the lefties" ad nauseum (yawn) and yet most of the policies you espouse are straight from the communist party handbook? profondo asbo
  • Score: 0

11:18am Mon 5 May 14

Nelly99 says...

Well Kim I usually agree with you and I liked your recent column in the Echo. However I think you rather missed my point about the sustainabilty of paying out ad infinitum to just about anyone who can fill out a claim form. It cannot carry on indefinitely at this level. As for the minimum wage I don't think £6.50 is bad and there isn't anything stopping someone getting a better job! I live on an estate where not only are 3/4 of the houses occupied by council tenants but they not only get their rent paid but also get paid for living there. Since it is a private estate not council the remainder of us pay for our own homes...and theirs. Fair?
Well Kim I usually agree with you and I liked your recent column in the Echo. However I think you rather missed my point about the sustainabilty of paying out ad infinitum to just about anyone who can fill out a claim form. It cannot carry on indefinitely at this level. As for the minimum wage I don't think £6.50 is bad and there isn't anything stopping someone getting a better job! I live on an estate where not only are 3/4 of the houses occupied by council tenants but they not only get their rent paid but also get paid for living there. Since it is a private estate not council the remainder of us pay for our own homes...and theirs. Fair? Nelly99
  • Score: 3

2:40pm Mon 5 May 14

Devils Advocate says...

Kim, congratulations on you fair view today.
Even the far right politician asbo Profumo has been left in a state of spluttery today.
It is such a sad thing though to see those who are not well off slating those who are even worse off.
Yes, people are cheating the dole system. Far more though, those mainly on the moral high ground, are cheating the system out of countless billions. Firstly through cheating their tax returns, then cheating on expense claims.
But for some, an apology and paying a little of what they have stolen from the tax payer is fine. The top are excused their crime against the people, whilst the poor are pilloried. All this in the name of the Englishman, once the envy of the world, until the leaders got spotted for what they are!
Kim, congratulations on you fair view today. Even the far right politician asbo Profumo has been left in a state of spluttery today. It is such a sad thing though to see those who are not well off slating those who are even worse off. Yes, people are cheating the dole system. Far more though, those mainly on the moral high ground, are cheating the system out of countless billions. Firstly through cheating their tax returns, then cheating on expense claims. But for some, an apology and paying a little of what they have stolen from the tax payer is fine. The top are excused their crime against the people, whilst the poor are pilloried. All this in the name of the Englishman, once the envy of the world, until the leaders got spotted for what they are! Devils Advocate
  • Score: -1

12:32pm Tue 6 May 14

profondo asbo says...

Devils Advocate wrote:
Kim, congratulations on you fair view today.
Even the far right politician asbo Profumo has been left in a state of spluttery today.
It is such a sad thing though to see those who are not well off slating those who are even worse off.
Yes, people are cheating the dole system. Far more though, those mainly on the moral high ground, are cheating the system out of countless billions. Firstly through cheating their tax returns, then cheating on expense claims.
But for some, an apology and paying a little of what they have stolen from the tax payer is fine. The top are excused their crime against the people, whilst the poor are pilloried. All this in the name of the Englishman, once the envy of the world, until the leaders got spotted for what they are!
where's the splutter?

sorry to disappoint but i took the political compass test and my result was to the left of the labour 2010 score and a lot less authoritarian.

http://www.political
compass.org/ukpartie
s2010
[quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: Kim, congratulations on you fair view today. Even the far right politician asbo Profumo has been left in a state of spluttery today. It is such a sad thing though to see those who are not well off slating those who are even worse off. Yes, people are cheating the dole system. Far more though, those mainly on the moral high ground, are cheating the system out of countless billions. Firstly through cheating their tax returns, then cheating on expense claims. But for some, an apology and paying a little of what they have stolen from the tax payer is fine. The top are excused their crime against the people, whilst the poor are pilloried. All this in the name of the Englishman, once the envy of the world, until the leaders got spotted for what they are![/p][/quote]where's the splutter? sorry to disappoint but i took the political compass test and my result was to the left of the labour 2010 score and a lot less authoritarian. http://www.political compass.org/ukpartie s2010 profondo asbo
  • Score: 2

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